Can AI Save Sustainability—Or Kill Your Job?

With Anneli Tostar,
Co-Founder and CEO, Tangible
In this episode of Less Talk, More Action, Joel and Owen welcome Anneli Tostar, Co-founder and CEO of Tangible, for a candid discussion on revolutionizing the built environment. They dive into Anneli’s entrepreneurial journey, why tackling embodied carbon matters, and how technology, especially AI, can help make construction more efficient and sustainable. The conversation also critiques the obsession with ESG reporting, urging a shift toward real action and collaboration across the industry. Key takeaways include the need to focus on genuine impact, leveraging data for smarter building, maintaining optimism for climate action through innovation, and so much more.

Highlights from this week’s conversation include:

  • Welcome and Introduction to the Podcast and Guest (0:42)
  • Discussing Challenges in Real Estate and Sustainability Implementation (3:57)
  • Anneli Tostar Introduces Tangible and Its Mission (6:11)
  • Target Audience and Key Users for Tangible’s Technology (8:11)
  • Anneli’s Journey Into Software Entrepreneurship and Fundraising (10:31)
  • Realities of Fundraising and Critique of the VC Climate Space (14:09)
  • Rethinking Decarbonization Solutions and the Role of Software (17:05)
  • Tangible’s Product Features and Impact of AI in Construction (20:55)
  • Moving From Embodied Carbon to Broader Construction Efficiency (24:18)
  • Why Automation and Better Data Matter in Building Efficiency (26:50)
  • Conversation on Why Industry Giants Don’t Innovate or Solve These Problems (29:46)
  • Critique of ESG Reporting and Discussion About Industry Direction (33:02)
  • The Future of Sustainability, AI’s Impact, and Hope for Meaningful Change (41:09)
  • Closing Optimistic Thoughts and Where to Connect with Anneli (47:34)

The nexus of business, policy, and sustainability is more divided than ever, but Less Talk, More Action is here to cut through the noise. Hosted by clean energy experts Joel Cesare and Owen Barrett, this podcast dives into the front lines of decarbonization, net-zero real estate, and entrepreneurship. Each episode features bold questions, real solutions, and stories from leaders in science, tech, and business who are taking action to make the world a better place. Join us as we move beyond talk and work toward a cleaner, net-zero future. Learn more and subscribe at lesstalkmoreaction.com.

About the Hosts

Joel Cesare
Joel Cesare is a visionary leader in sustainable real estate, currently serving as Growth Lead at Cambio, an AI building retrofit analytics platform. He previously led Google's $50B global net zero real estate program and oversaw the building of Santa Monica's City Hall East, one of the world's greenest buildings. Recognized with awards like ENR Top 25 Newsmaker, Living Future Hero, Building Design & Construction 40 under 40, his mission is to dream, inspire and deliver.
Owen Barrett
Owen Barrett is the world's foremost expert in solar on multifamily properties. Owen is currently the CEO of Shine and has over 12 years of experience in the clean technology sector covering fuel cells, HVAC, LED lighting, and of course, solar. Owen is the former Global Energy Manager of a Fortune 500 company and a successful founder with two exits.

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